Discussion:Révolution roumaine de 1989

Un jour après il y avait des terroristes partout et le pays semblait tomber dans une guerre civile. Les gens, armés, partaient défendre les universités, d'autres se cachaient. La vérite est que rares sont les personnes qui ont vu un tel terroriste mort ou vivant. On a suggéré que les terroristes étaient un prétexte du nouveau pouvoir mais sans en apporter une preuve. La révolution a été vue en "live" à la télevision par tout le pays pour la première fois au monde. A l'époque tout était très authentique. Mais les batiments officiels n'ont pas été touchés par les balles des terroristes comme les autres. Sans connaitre les intentions de ceux qui ont lancé l'alerte contre des terroristes, on sait maintenant qu'il n'y avait que de la manipulation (Lucian Boia dans son livre "Romania: Borderland of Europe").

Suggestion

Quel est aujourd'hui le point de vue (officiel ? officieux ?) des Roumains eux-mêmes sur ces événements? Intégrer ce point de vue dans l'article pourrait éclairer valablement le lecteur. Goliadkine (d) 25 août 2008 à 18:30 (CEST)

Le pasteur Hongrois donnt il est question dans cet article est http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laszlo_Tokes

Manipulations et mensonges

Le présent article contient une quantité ahurissante de "fausses informations", la première étant que l'institut médico-légal de Timisoara aurait eu un "charnier", comme s'il était normal d'avoir un "charnier" dans un institut médico-légal. L'histoire est en fait bien connue : des cadavres furent déterrés du cimetière des pauvres et présentés aux médias occidentaux comme un "charnier". Timisoara reste un exemple magnifique de manipulation médiatique en temps de guerre. Il y a aussi lieu de s'interroger sur le chiffre de "100 000 ouvriers" que n'importe quel pays démocratique ou non aurait encore du mal à aligner.

La seconde fausse information délirante est celle du dernier discours de Ceausescu. Bien que le discours soit dans son intégralité disponible en ligne l'on nous dit :

• Que des haut-parleurs auraient diffusé des slogans anticommunistes. Cela semble bien vrai. Mais au même moment des coups de feu ont été tirés depuis le fond de la place, faisant plusieurs morts, ce qui n'est évidemment pas dit.
• Que le rassemblement se "transforme alors en manifestation de protestation contre le régime", mieux encore que les drapeaux seraient piétinés. Alors que les images montrent très clairement que les premiers rangs restent impassibles et qu'une bonne partie de la foule fuit, de peur, la place.
• Que Ceaușescu se retire et que la transmission télévisée serait interrompue. La transmission est effectivement interrompue, mais Ceaucescu ne se retire pas puisqu'il appelle la foule au calme (séquence utilisée lamentablement pour faire croire qu'il serait "conspué par la foule"). Le calme revient, les drapeaux sont toujours là, et Ceaucescu reprend son discours et annonce l'augmentation du SMIC et des retraits sous les ovations.

Cet article mérite de rester tel quel comme exemple incroyable de manipulation.

L'intégralité du discours peut être vue ici : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIbCtz_Xwk

Les informations concernant les événements peuvent être trouvées ici : https://www.diploweb.com/IMG/pdf/Roumanie_revolution_revisitee.pdf_.pdf

Un jour viendra où quelqu'un osera réécrire l'intégralité de cet article indigne. Je lui souhaite bon courage.

--Lamarque2017 (discuter) 17 août 2020 à 02:04 (CEST)

C'est vous qui manipulez et racontez des mensonges en défendant un dictateur brutal est sanglant comme Ceausescu.--Vernel222 (discuter) 31 octobre 2022 à 21:21 (CET)

1989 in Romania

1989 in Romania In 1989 Gorbaciov told to Ceausescu that the KAER market and all with communism is gone .These discussions took place in 1989 before December. Possibly Ceausescu and his people from government was, were not satisfied with the money he has received or something else , so he started to shoot in Timisoara first possibly civilians.The population in Bucharest only were spectators at the Collapse of former URSS. With this disaster confronted , Gorbaciov disposed of Ceausescus.The rest with how the communists in Bucharest did the revolution themselves is possibly fantasy mostly. As I remember .The politicians in Bucharest only took advantage to obtain a new communist possibly administration after 1990.To this day these people live in the confiscated houses of 1946,an entire former P.C.R party .--2003:CF:BF12:D849:9BB:E9C8:EB1F:948C — Le message qui précède, non signé, a été déposé par l'IP 2003:CF:BF12:D849:9BB:E9C8:EB1F:948C (discuter), le 12 décembre 2020 à 19:46 (CET)

revolution of 1989 Romanie

The leaders of this revolution of 1989 in Romania in Bucharest are only next part of the P.C.R. party ., only this time without Ceausescus.They live in the confiscated houses , of 1944,1946 1955 also in 2020.Not only them but their families too.In reality just as Ceausescus , they represent London in Romania., the Queen of England -see Ceausescu and the Queen- since 1948.The leading parties PSD and PNL are a facelifted former PCR party.

in this respect.,

Communisus or communism in Romania. In Romania after 1944 with the extensive bombings made by Great Britain Romania have surrendered , at Yalta and possibly Teheran conferences, Winston Churchill have decided to annex Romania to the British Empire, for the petrol in Romania and the 4000 0000 ha of land .In 1944 possibly the international laws were such that one to pull something like this had to invent a party a secret service some small dictators etc an apparatus , with which to exploit the war benefits ,pray.S o Winston churchill put Stalin to put possibly Dr.Petru Groza and others, King Mihai , to make ,build up, invent the Communist Party in Romania , in order to give a legal form to this annexation .So after 1944 in 45 and 46 until up to 55 this PCR party have won all elections at gun point, some at least 100 000 people were arrested and died in political prisons etc.So that the confiscation of these 9 000 000 ha , Romania, be made legal .With dictators like Ceausescu, see also Queen Elizabeth II and Ceausescus, or Ion Iliescu or etc. named presidents etc. 2021 . they have sized in this way control over political will, properties af all sort in Romania , from houses , lands small businesses, farms to petrol industry , agriculture , airports, army ,police, justice system. Example all food in Romania in Ceausescu time was exported , meat especially ,inhabitants of Bucharest had no access to meat , coffee, citric .After 1990 they have reconfirmed in Romania this system ,changing the name of PCR in PDR , having the same doctrine possibly by replacing C letter with D letter, as in Communist or Democrat .To this day in Bucharest more or less the population was replaced in some 70 years with the ones making thus the occupation since 1948.They are told the aristocracy time is past so this communist will is fired, and this exploitations made easier and as such legal . For example houses of Aristide Razu ,and of many others of the former aristocracy ,are confiscated since 1950and-2021, inside live these so called communists,in reality Great Britain conquest of Romania.--2003:CF:BF2E:CB7E:DC22:E4B6:F7E4:1C2C 15:43, 13..In this way with a communist secret service party administration ,presidents ,little dictators hundred of thousands of people were killed in Romania in the last 70 years in this way and are still let to die further. British administration. Finally , as dictators as Ceausescu or Johannis does not matter who, they are al Great Brittain so called communist project former communism actual democrats , but in reality these are only thei directors in Romania Colony , possibly from the families which made the political prisons of Pitesti, Aiud, Poarta Alba and many others , they have worked there as guardians now at the 5th generation , they are ministers or presidents like Sadam or Etc., only supervising that the crop of 4 000 000 gets safely in U.K. or E.U., colony , .Although these apparatus in Romania have killed or let to die possibly tens of thousand families ,starting with beating or imprisoning the little man who did not wanted to sign that his land is confiscated by the state 45 and 46 , imprisoned women men and adolescents, beating or killing them , until they made the total of 9 000 000ha of confiscated land. After 1990 although these people are murderous at best , they have been reconfirmed by London. Further this apparatus of Securitate from army , police , informers gipsy clans ,justice system ,presidents ,work for Prince Charles the Queen , ,British empire ,because when one administrates 9 000 000 ha , petrol , weapon fabrics ,tanks etc,300 transport ships ,3 biggest oil tankers for export of petrol, at such low costs , many being analphabets, like Ceausescu who put finally the TAB gun over civilians so that they do not lose the colony , it is good and safe business, very cheap. So Romania got rid of the ottoman Empire the Austo-Hungar one only to find the British one. . So in the end communism is a form with which the British best exploit Romania , the ones who disagree or had , were killed or let to die of bad heart , promiscuity , with the help of this secret service , Romanian -Securitate which was listening and watching 23 00 0 000 people , to get the best result , and they did not even found the bodies ., everything made legal.In 2021 the same people killing or letting to die for the same reasons.2021 .Finally these criminals are legal now they live in confiscated houses or businesses etc lands , being now with studies of all kinds occupying all universities or good working places letting the poor little man to die .All is legal the former King has approved as well also Prince Charles see youtube is a great friend of these criminals .(CET)AristideRazu

History of Romania in 80 and of British Empire ,and of Ceausescu C.B.

Furthermore I ,in the 80s after the fructuous vist of Nicolae Ceausescu in London , as I lived on Calea Victoriei, my parents stayed 1 week in line ,nights as well , to buy some chicken meat, as meat was very difficult to be bought,being exported to England, only to be found at black market, with a lot of money in Bucharest. In our Alimentara-food shop-lived sceenes,, only when was a foreign delegation Ceausescu or the Queen of England , see Churchill Yalta total surrender from Romania possibly., brought more than bread , cheese and meat and salami for 2 hours or so,not selling any ,only to look good in vitrine, then the truck of food came back to take out the food ,in the desperation of the population., women and children .In the countryside people have never seen sugar , matchboxes , coffee etc.,I doubt many have wc, but in the garden.This meat was only for the Queen of England dogs ,Ceausescu and Romanian Securitate ,Communist Army.,and their families.

In this time Ceausescu obedient servant of the Queen of England was receiving as gift weapon collections etc , C.B, Order of the Bath.

In 1989 ,Ceausescu like Sadam Husein was replaced with Petre Roman ,Ion Iliescu today is Claus Johanis.All coming from the same P.C.R. party , at least their families with roots in former urss communist party the Romanians wing, Ana Pauker ,Walter Roman the israelis from urss communist romanian wing etc.

These people which from 1948 until 2021 have become what is known as Romanian Securitate or S.R.I or etc , are by now armies.They are so many that have confiscated the houses of people like Aristide Razu , all of them and of many thousands of others .Confiscating them at first in the 50s they manage to make false ownership papers as well after Ceausescu s death.Ceausescu was only a transition period of the occupation of U.K. of Romania. Then in 1989 this Securitate have received democratic rights. People like Ion Cristoiu , Cristian Lascu,the whole communist structure, and their gipsy friends and families and friends ,all SteFan Gheorghiu Academy absolvents in the 60s,from press to science,from art to etc,allrecruited families from the shores of Dambovita , the whole gipsy structure of Ion Iliescu party possibly at least 1000 000 families , making this Romanian Securitate especially after 1990 , have been reconfirmed by London because 9 000 000 of land ,the petrol industry and so on have become the property of Winston Churchill and his friends , regardless of the people who live in promiscuity in Bucharest and elsewhere , in reality these people , like me , are killed , those used by London are talking our place , for a while for the benefit of London, U.K..Meaning we don t only eat other animals.We are eaten by U.K.In this sense it would be interesting to know how many people died like this in Bucharest and in Romania since 1948 to 1989 and from 1989 until 2021.,with confiscated houses , lands ,lifes,etc.And what is the future,if any?Cioran said ,communism is like a cancer , it spreads all over.In reality this communism is only a fake to put control over a country by some lords like U.K. lords.,not respecting anymore anything?in this way killing the aristocracy of another country

P.s.all people there from media to political parties are one communist analphabets army , used only to ,,administrate ,, Romania for U.K. which with ships are carrying in Imperium 9000 000 ha and the mountains ,the petrol, possibly from Constanta Port. So you see it is not about money. It is about countries , islands ,and murdered civilian population in peace time ,after they surrendered at 23 August 1944.But the English being some milliards population , Europe of some hundred of thousands millions ,was not enough, sorry, is not enough.

P.s.here I am not trying to say that the Queen of England has no university or studies.

P.s. In this process our family was consumed by these communists ,in reality U.K.In our houses live their dogs still 2021,from Romania Securitate.

AndreiGeorgescu nephew of ,Razu 1450-Razu ,1750Moldavia ,Barbu Balcescu,Nicolae Mandrea ,Dr.Aristide Razu Clara Krupensky and G.Ral Aristide Razu , Commander of Ist Romanian Army Corp .1919 -1928,Inspector of Engineers of the Romanian Army .--2003:CF:BF2E:CB89:5022:92F6:D70F:A1E0 (discuter) 25 mars 2021 à 19:38 (CET)AristideRazu

communism in Romania 2021

The leaders of this revolution of 1989 in Romania in Bucharest are only next part of the P.C.R. party ., only this time without Ceausescus.They live in the confiscated houses , of 1944,1946 1955 also in 2020.Not only them but their families too.In reality just as Ceausescus , they represent London in Romania., the Queen of England -see Ceausescu and the Queen- since 1948.The leading parties PSD and PNL are a facelifted former PCR party.

in this respect.,

Communisus or communism in Romania. In Romania after 1944 with the extensive bombings made by Great Britain Romania have surrendered , at Yalta and possibly Teheran conferences, Winston Churchill have decided to annex Romania to the British Empire, for the petrol in Romania and the 4000 0000 ha of land .In 1944 possibly the international laws were such that one to pull something like this had to invent a party a secret service some small dictators etc an apparatus , with which to exploit the war benefits ,pray.S o Winston churchill put Stalin to put possibly Dr.Petru Groza and others, King Mihai , to make ,build up, invent the Communist Party in Romania , in order to give a legal form to this annexation .So after 1944 in 45 and 46 until up to 55 this PCR party have won all elections at gun point, some at least 100 000 people were arrested and died in political prisons etc.So that the confiscation of these 9 000 000 ha , Romania, be made legal .With dictators like Ceausescu, see also Queen Elizabeth II and Ceausescus, or Ion Iliescu or etc. named presidents etc. 2021 . they have sized in this way control over political will, properties af all sort in Romania , from houses , lands small businesses, farms to petrol industry , agriculture , airports, army ,police, justice system. Example all food in Romania in Ceausescu time was exported , meat especially ,inhabitants of Bucharest had no access to meat , coffee, citric .After 1990 they have reconfirmed in Romania this system ,changing the name of PCR in PDR , having the same doctrine possibly by replacing C letter with D letter, as in Communist or Democrat .To this day in Bucharest more or less the population was replaced in some 70 years with the ones making thus the occupation since 1948.They are told the aristocracy time is past so this communist will is fired, and this exploitations made easier and as such legal . For example houses of Aristide Razu ,and of many others of the former aristocracy ,are confiscated since 1950and-2021, inside live these so called communists,in reality Great Britain conquest of Romania.--2003:CF:BF2E:CB7E:DC22:E4B6:F7E4:1C2C 15:43, 13..In this way with a communist secret service party administration ,presidents ,little dictators hundred of thousands of people were killed in Romania in the last 70 years in this way and are still let to die further. British administration. Finally , as dictators as Ceausescu or Johannis does not matter who, they are al Great Brittain so called communist project former communism actual democrats , but in reality these are only thei directors in Romania Colony , possibly from the families which made the political prisons of Pitesti, Aiud, Poarta Alba and many others , they have worked there as guardians now at the 5th generation , they are ministers or presidents like Sadam or Etc., only supervising that the crop of 4 000 000 gets safely in U.K. or E.U., colony , .Although these apparatus in Romania have killed or let to die possibly tens of thousand families ,starting with beating or imprisoning the little man who did not wanted to sign that his land is confiscated by the state 45 and 46 , imprisoned women men and adolescents, beating or killing them , until they made the total of 9 000 000ha of confiscated land. After 1990 although these people are murderous at best , they have been reconfirmed by London. Further this apparatus of Securitate from army , police , informers gipsy clans ,justice system ,presidents ,work for Prince Charles the Queen , ,British empire ,because when one administrates 9 000 000 ha , petrol , weapon fabrics ,tanks etc,300 transport ships ,3 biggest oil tankers for export of petrol, at such low costs , many being analphabets, like Ceausescu who put finally the TAB gun over civilians so that they do not lose the colony , it is good and safe business, very cheap. So Romania got rid of the ottoman Empire the Austo-Hungar one only to find the British one. . So in the end communism is a form with which the British best exploit Romania , the ones who disagree or had , were killed or let to die of bad heart , promiscuity , with the help of this secret service , Romanian -Securitate which was listening and watching 23 00 0 000 people , to get the best result , and they did not even found the bodies ., everything made legal.In 2021 the same people killing or letting to die for the same reasons.2021 .Finally these criminals are legal now they live in confiscated houses or businesses etc lands , being now with studies of all kinds occupying all universities or good working places letting the poor little man to die .All is legal the former King has approved as well also Prince Charles see youtube is a great friend of these criminals .(CET)AristideRazu

History of Romania in 80 and of British Empire ,and of Ceausescu C.B.

Furthermore I ,in the 80s after the fructuous vist of Nicolae Ceausescu in London , as I lived on Calea Victoriei, my parents stayed 1 week in line ,nights as well , to buy some chicken meat, as meat was very difficult to be bought,being exported to England, only to be found at black market, with a lot of money in Bucharest. In our Alimentara-food shop-lived sceenes,, only when was a foreign delegation Ceausescu or the Queen of England , see Churchill Yalta total surrender from Romania possibly., brought more than bread , cheese and meat and salami for 2 hours or so,not selling any ,only to look good in vitrine, then the truck of food came back to take out the food ,in the desperation of the population., women and children .In the countryside people have never seen sugar , matchboxes , coffee etc.,I doubt many have wc, but in the garden.This meat was only for the Queen of England dogs ,Ceausescu and Romanian Securitate ,Communist Army.,and their families.

In this time Ceausescu obedient servant of the Queen of England was receiving as gift weapon collections etc , C.B, Order of the Bath.

In 1989 ,Ceausescu like Sadam Husein was replaced with Petre Roman ,Ion Iliescu today is Claus Johanis.All coming from the same P.C.R. party , at least their families with roots in former urss communist party the Romanians wing, Ana Pauker ,Walter Roman the israelis from urss communist romanian wing etc.

These people which from 1948 until 2021 have become what is known as Romanian Securitate or S.R.I or etc , are by now armies.They are so many that have confiscated the houses of people like Aristide Razu , all of them and of many thousands of others .Confiscating them at first in the 50s they manage to make false ownership papers as well after Ceausescu s death.Ceausescu was only a transition period of the occupation of U.K. of Romania. Then in 1989 this Securitate have received democratic rights. People like Ion Cristoiu , Cristian Lascu,the whole communist structure, and their gipsy friends and families and friends ,all SteFan Gheorghiu Academy absolvents in the 60s,from press to science,from art to etc,allrecruited families from the shores of Dambovita , the whole gipsy structure of Ion Iliescu party possibly at least 1000 000 families , making this Romanian Securitate especially after 1990 , have been reconfirmed by London because 9 000 000 of land ,the petrol industry and so on have become the property of Winston Churchill and his friends , regardless of the people who live in promiscuity in Bucharest and elsewhere , in reality these people , like me , are killed , those used by London are talking our place , for a while for the benefit of London, U.K..Meaning we don t only eat other animals.We are eaten by U.K.In this sense it would be interesting to know how many people died like this in Bucharest and in Romania since 1948 to 1989 and from 1989 until 2021.,with confiscated houses , lands ,lifes,etc.And what is the future,if any?Cioran said ,communism is like a cancer , it spreads all over.In reality this communism is only a fake to put control over a country by some lords like U.K. lords.,not respecting anymore anything?in this way killing the aristocracy of another country

P.s.all people there from media to political parties are one communist analphabets army , used only to ,,administrate ,, Romania for U.K. which with ships are carrying in Imperium 9000 000 ha and the mountains ,the petrol, possibly from Constanta Port. So you see it is not about money. It is about countries , islands ,and murdered civilian population in peace time ,after they surrendered at 23 August 1944.But the English being some milliards population , Europe of some hundred of thousands millions ,was not enough, sorry, is not enough.

P.s.here I am not trying to say that the Queen of England has no university or studies.

P.s. In this process our family was consumed by these communists ,in reality U.K.In our houses live their dogs still 2021,from Romania Securitate.

AndreiGeorgescu nephew of ,Razu 1450-Razu ,1750Moldavia ,Barbu Balcescu,Nicolae Mandrea ,Dr.Aristide Razu Clara Krupensky and G.Ral Aristide Razu , Commander of Ist Romanian Army Corp .1919 -1928,Inspector of Engineers of the Romanian Army .--2003:CF:BF2E:CBBA:C1B2:1A48:17E0:2873 (discuter) 27 mars 2021 à 23:52 (CET)AristideRazu

....

So what is the trick that these people have been reinstated in June 1990, with Mineriada I., just like there was no revolutionin 89.The whole communist structure?Even the Royal House sits by them.Is it the petrol , the 9 000 000 ha of land ,agriculture,have there been massed between 1945 and 1990 armies of foreigners from former urss, and now they live in our houses in Bucharest former Bonaparte Park, forever ?Etc.I mean one understands Romania lost the war ,2nd, war reparations etc.But these people are more than Ceausescu-which was exporting the food.Or just the same.They manipulate the justice system as they whish,to start with. For the sake of History.Same thing in 2021.The political system in Romania is the boss.Is it neocommunism ?2003:CF:BF2E:CBBA:C1B2:1A48:17E0:2873 (discuter)AristideRazu

communism in Romania 2021

...but the fact is if one whishes to take his confiscated house in 1950 by the communist party ,back , in reality in his house live further the former communist party .Example Gral.Aristide Razu house on Varsovia Street no 5 Bucharest.in the former Bonaparte Park in Bucharest.Same is half Bucharest,it is in this situation , Romania s cities in general.,confiscated.The agricultural lands as well,confiscated.4 000 000 ha ,in total 9000 000 ha.,all country. And after 45 and another 30 years,1948 -2021 , one can only think that in reality ,Ceausescu,Iliescu,Johanis etc., all living in confiscated houses, to start with, are in reality a system of exploiting ,making legal , the export of Romania ...What are those which were the real owners of these lands , houses supposed to do?It is hard to believe that a system of analphabets ...But these people , have houses one should think.In 2000 years of history .Where are the Romanians to go if these P.C.R or P.S.D or P.N.L is living in their houses properties ,lands.Question.Through murder this P.C.R as such is serving the momentary needs of London possibly etc.Also is a bit sick to see these communist celebrating WW1 or everything Romania did between 1800 and 1920.Clearly , who can own the police, army , politics, tv, jobs,justice and the houses in a country like Romania?A bit shameful and , this communist system ,by keeping power is only killing the ones that lived for 2000 years or 1945 years in Romania.2003:CF:BF2E:CBBA:F501:1093:9FB0:EAA4 (discuter)AristideRazu

Le renversement d'un dictateur n'est jamais un coup d'état

On ne parle d'un coup d'état que quand un tyran prend le pouvoir, pas quand il est renversé. Donc, j'enleverai cette définition de la rèvolution roumaine, qui est une offense et un outrage a tous ceux qui, comme moi, ont combattu pour libèrer la Roumaine d'un dictateur brutal et sanglant, et aux milliers des personnes qui ont donnè leur vie pour cela. Vernel222 (discuter) 31 octobre 2022 à 21:25 (CET)

Pourquoi rien à propos des Roumains assassinés ?

Cet article est dans son ensemble rédigé avec une intention de complotisme à peine voilé, sans s'appuyer sur quasiment aucune source sérieuse. Il n'y a quasiment aucune source scientifique.

Particulièrement, l'article laisse sous-entendre que tout ne serait qu'une histoire de règlement de compte entre on ne sait trop qui et Caucescu.

Pire encore, les Roumains assassinés sont complètement oubliés. Il faut attendre le chapitre "Bilan" pour apprendre que plusieurs centaines de personnes ont été tuées. Comment sont-ils morts ? Quand ? Pourquoi ? Quels hommages ? Pourquoi cet article fait comme si cette révolution n'avait pas existé alors même qu'elle en porte le titre ?

Le dictateur, a, lui, droit à un chapitre entier le concernant... Logret de Carlin (discuter) 24 février 2024 à 14:50 (CET)